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Talk:Ancient humanoid
Vulcan I think listing the Vulcans as a seeded world, even as phrased now, is a bad idea, it is like saying "The Original Home World of Romulans" if Vulcan was really a seeded world. For those of you whom do not know why I took out Vulcan from the list, it is because suggest that Vulcan's are a colony of that planet they were at. Whether or not you see that as concrete it is enough not to include Vulcan on the Progenitor List. --TOSrules 21:52, Nov 12, 2004 (CET) *But the Vulcans are the race that spawned the Romulans, who we know is one of the species created by the Progenitors. -- Krevaner 22:26, 12 Nov 2004 (CET) ** suggest that Vulcan is a colony of the world from that episode. Sargon's suggest that Earth was a colony of that world is countered, but Spock responds "that would tend to explain certain gaps in Vulcan Pre history". It is also backed up in the fact that there minds can last longer in Vulcan bodies, in fact they raise the pulse rate about 20 above a Vulcan's rate. It might not be concrete, but it is enough to put doubt that world of Vulcan was seeded by the Progenitors. --TOSrules 22:53, Nov 12, 2004 (CET) *I'm sorry, but was there any reference to Humans, Romulans, Cardassians, and Klingons as being specific examples of humanoid races seeded by the progenitors, or was this assumed based on the circumstances? **Romulans and Cardassians were definitely mentioned in the episode. However, I seem to recall very distinctly that the genetic markers common to those species were mentioned as being absent from Humans. In fact, I think that the episode (Picard in dialogue) specifically rejected the idea that Humans were one of the races, stating that we had evolved separately. Anyone have the script on this?Logan 5 20:44, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC) ***The script is here: http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/literature329/246.txt The events from the final few minutes, specifically the bickering between the Cardassians and Klingons and later Picard's conversation with the Romulan commander, seem to imply that it was conclusively proven that at least these four species had this common ancestor. -- SmokeDetector47 // ''talk'' 22:14, 23 Aug 2005 (UTC) :It is implied that all 4 species have ancestory in the ancient humanoids, BUT it is speculation to leap to the conclusion that each of their homeworlds was directly seeded 4.5 billion years ago. Do we even know that klingons evolved on Qo'noS, or anything on the prehistory of Cardassia-prime, or even what the Sargon's race involvement supposedly was to the prehistory of Vulcan. I believe it should not be part of the main text of the article to claim this seeding, as it is speculation. --Pseudohuman 09:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC) Source of name? Does anyone have a source on the name for this race? I usually refer to them as the "Progenitors," but as far as I remember, they weren't called anything specific in "The Chase." I know the remainder of TNG and all of Voyager didn't really mention anything further; did DS9 ever touch on them? If not, maybe a move to something like ancient humanoids or something else would be more descriptive and appropriate. -- SmokeDetector47 // ''talk'' 22:14, 23 Aug 2005 (UTC) : Agreed, I don't recall anybody calling them anything in paticular. — THOR 09:51, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC) :The aldean call 'them' the progenitors byut we don't see them. There is no reason, IMHO, to say that the two episodes refer to the same species. --Rami 23:07, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::No, you're right, Rami, for the progenitors to have created the Custodian, the device would have to be billions of years old. Chances are, the Aldean Progenitors were not the same as the Progenitors. This is also discussed at Talk:Custodian. Zsingaya ''Talk'' 12:39, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) I removed this phrase: The Progenitors were also responsible for constructing the Custodian on the planet Aldea several centuries prior to 2364. ( ) This is because, in my opinion, there is no evidence to link the Aldeans with this species, only known as the Progenitors. It is far more likely, that the Aldeans were talking about a much more recent civilisation who settled their world centuries ago. Zsingaya ''Talk'' 22:37, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC) "real world" explanation I've always viewed this as a "trek world" explanation for the "real world" problem of having only humans who can be actors. 18:26, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC) :It does raise another question, too: How many of the obviously non-humanoid species (such as Insectoid and Aquatic Xindi, the Antedeans, or the Trill hosts/symbionts) DO have this same common ancestry, but evolved into weird forms? I suppose that'll have to remain a hypothetical one. - Spatula 21:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC) ::Doesn't the Deep Space Nine relaunch say that the Founders were also created by them, thus explaining why Salome Jens' characters look alike? -- Excelsior 21:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC) :::Don't know, but it sound's quite interesting. Although my personal guess would have been that the Changelings evolved seperatly and could be as ancient as the Ancient Humanoids themselves. --Trent Easton 10:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC) ::::Haha I'm reading the book at the moment! The Founders believe they were creaated by something called the Progenitor wich in their believe was also a shapeshifting species. And they sent out the hundred to find it. ~ Trent_Easton ~ talk 16:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC) Ronald Moore quote Can anyone provide a cite for Ronald Moore's statement that these are the Preservers? --ScottAlanHill (at Wikipedia) Christian Is there any actual reference to Kassidy Yates being a Christian? All I can find is that she wanted to be married by a "minister". : At least she didn't say rabbi. --Alan 06:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC) Ronald Moore note :Writer Ronald D. Moore has stated that these humanoids were, in fact, the Preservers. I am removing this note. It has gone without citation for 8 months. If someone can cite it, feel free to put it back. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Worlds Seeded Pseudohuman removed Cardassia Prime, Qo'nos and Vulcan as not being supported by the episode dialogue. Should I point out that was the idea of the entire episode - namely, that most, if not all, of Trek's humanoid races were related? I don't recall it ever said that every planet seeded had part of the message, or conversely that it was only planets with the message that were seeded. My impression from the episode was that at the very least the races involved in "the chase" were seeded: namely Cardassians, Klingons, and Romulans. They were indeed all addressed by the Ancient humanoid, and the ending dialogue does nothing to dissuade the idea that the three other races were seeded as well. It is certainly very heavily implied. – Cleanse 10:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC) :The holomessage was not an interactive one, it had no idea what races would show up to hear it or who it was addressing. Similar thing occured with Losira when a similar message adressed humans as "my fellow kaladans" in "That which survives". I just think it's speculation to simplify that these planets were directly seeded when we don't know that for sure. --Pseudohuman 10:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC) ::I have to admit that in my opinion the Cardassians, Vulcans, and Klingons were one of the seeded planets by the Progenitors, but Memory Alpha isn't a place for opinions. I'd never really considered his point of view before I read what Pseudohuman had to say, but now that I have I find it difficult to argue against him. Implication, regardless of how heavy, seldom has a place on Memory Alpha. There is really just as much reason to think the Kayzon, and the Vorta are "seed" planets as are Klingon, and Cardassian. Are the Kayzon, and Cardassian "seed" planets? In my opinion yes. That was the point of the episode. But they didn't mention the Kayzon, and they didn't mention the Klingon. The Klingons saw an opportunity for power, and jumped. Canon requires Memory Alphas position to be as simple as that. Hossrex 10:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)